The Antisoap

Last night I made a soap that contained no holy trinity oils. No CO, OO, or PO. Just lard, avocado, shea, hemp, argan, and castor. My intent was to create a low-comedogenic facial bar that would not cause acne or flare my rosacea, and to use only the oils I had on hand, especially the hemp and argan oils that were getting toward the end of their shelf lives.

I left CO out b/c it has a high comedogenic rating (4 out of 5). Some sources also rank OO fairly high (3) so that was my reason there too. I don't know the rank of PO, but I've abandoned it for lard due to economic and potential environmental costs.

It'll be interesting to see how this goes without any CO and with relatively high amounts of DOS-inducing devils in there. But it was a small batch and it is just for my personal use, so no regrets no matter what. On the contrary, I'm looking forward to learning from it.

I've made only one other facial bar, and while using it I got the biggest zit I think I've ever had. That one did have all three trinity oils, with CO at 5% and OO at 40%. I can't say the soap caused it, but like everything else I've tried, I can't say it prevented it, either.

One cool thing about the antisoap is that it was hard after only 24 hours in the mold. Not quite as hard as my castille was in the same time, but impressive none-the-less. Yes I'm a fan of 2:1 lye solution. I'm hopeful the hardness will reduce the cure time enough so I can get to it all before the DOS do!

While this soap cures I'll be trying a salt bar from another forum member. I am nervous about the high CO but optimistic about the salt.

And now, a question for those of you who have won your acne battle using handmade soap: What is your opinion on the comedogenicity of olive oil?

I have not found a soap till date that could clear acne and whiteheads for good.

I made a salt bar that was I think 85% co, 5% castor, 10% sesame oil (needed to use it up). 80% salt (of total oils that is), SF at 20. After 1 week of using it my husband came into the kitchen all excited. He said "check out my nose, look at how clean my pores are!" He is Italian and has pretty big pores that are always icky blackheads. Looked great after using the salt bar. And I found it to be pretty moisturizing too. Can't really speak to actual acne, but there is our face soap story.

CaraBou, I can't wait to hear how your soap turns out! Have you had a bad experience with hemp or argan oil causing DOS before?

I hadn't heard that olive oil was considered fairly comedogenic. Do ratings of how comedogenic an oil is directly apply to those oils in soap? I've wondered this, since other properties of oils change once they've been saponified (eg. coconut oil is moisturising on its own, but can be drying in soap).

I can't say from personal experience if I've found a difference with olive oil vs. no olive oil in a facial soap... Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever made soap without olive oil, since I always have it on hand and it adds hardness to the soap since I prefer not to use palm or animal fats in my soap.

Salt bars are something I'll have to try as well! Great idea to try them as a face soap.

CaraBou, I think this statement may make me the antisoap but I'll say it anyway. :b Have you considered that soap even soap with all of those goodies may just be to harsh for your face? I have combination dry to normal skin and have never met a soap my face likes. Soap for my body absolutely but not my face. I have been reading about the oil cleansing method and have tried it for the last week or so. So far my skin is more even and blemish free than it has been in the last decade. (but then again it's only been a week, not a huge trial period) The crunchy betty blog has a couple of good posts about it, and it uses oils you most likely have on hand for soap. It may be something to try if your antisoap doesn't have the effect you hoped for.

CaraBou said:

What is your opinion on the comedogenicity of olive oil?

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Well .. I can only speak about my personal experience, not on the comedogenicity of olive oil.

I made a Moroccan soap that is 100% OO and made with KOH, so technically it's a liquid soap .. but it's in a paste form, not liquid.

Since I've started using this soap I have had no pimples at all, my skin is squeaky clean but not dried (I haven't used moisturizer once since) and I have had a tomato red face my whole life .. but not since using this soap. My complexion looks smoother, softer, and much less ruddy and more even toned.

I'm thrilled and won't be using anything else on my face .. ever again.

I'm actually going to try an anti soap here as well. My skin doesn't mind coconut oil, but doesn't like olive at all. So I'm going to make a soap without olive. I'm thinking lard for the bulk.

And actually, I just tried a well-aged salt bar I made with 80% salt, 70 coconut, and a bit of Shea and avocado I believe. It had the same pore cleaning effect that your husband mentioned, AK. When it was at four weeks cure I found it ok but nothing to write home about. Now it's awesome.

All my soaps contain some % of OO, of 30% and more. Facial soap that I made for myself only since my skin is very sensitive has 45%. I usually have no problems with acne, and this facial soap is very mild and it's not causing any. I am from Mediterranean descent and have quite big pores on my nose sometimes. Now you got me thinking, they did reduce a bit since I started using my facial bars.
I have two teenagers and husband who were fighting acne really badly, they had horrible breakouts, and since using soap made with my usual recipe (30% OO) they were greatly reduced. Only addition to my usual recipe is activated charcoal.

Yes I love my charcoal and clay bar. It really helps with pore reduction too, I find.

This isn't soap, but when I tried the oil cleansing method with olive oil my skin hated it. After the first couple days my skin looked better, and then it went badly downhill. I stopped for about 6 months and then tried again after reading some articles about people having problems with olive oil, and used grapeseed which my skin loves and has never looked better. My skin feels so smooth without tons of whiteheads I used to have, and my pores (HUGE on my nose which has driven me nuts my whole life) have shrunk.

Good luck with the soap!!

QueenBeeSoap said:

Have you had a bad experience with hemp or argan oil causing DOS before? ... Do ratings of how comedogenic an oil is directly apply to those oils in soap? ...Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever made soap without olive oil...

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I have only soaped with HO a few times and never have with argan (I bought argan as carrier oil and moisturizer, though I've underutilized it for both). And I've never seen DOS. But my understanding is that oils with short shelf-life or high linoleic or linolenic fatty acids like these two are most likely to cause it. So I'm just braced! I don't know how the comedogenic values are affected by saponified oils, but given that some oils are never saponified I figure there's still a risk. As for you not ever soaping w/o OO, well me neither, this is my first! Olive is definitely a staple for me.

Em522 said:

Have you considered that soap even soap with all of those goodies may just be to harsh for your face? ... I have been reading about the oil cleansing method... It may be something to try if your antisoap doesn't have the effect you hoped for.

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I normally don't use soap on my face based on how it aggravates my rosacea after even one use - my face gets red and hot. My acne (cystic - ouch!) is harder for me to figure out, because I don't think I'm getting an instant reaction and I don't know how far to look back, or whether it's cumulative, food based or perhaps hormonal with a completely different solution needed than face care. I don't ever want to blame cp soap for my facial problems (which existed long before I discovered the bliss, but long after being a teenager). So when I see I still have a problem, I stop what I am doing since I know it didn't fix it. My first real purposeful facial bar -- with the 5% CO -- got around the rosacea as long as I didn't use it every day. But after about a month - WHAM - a small planet (BIG zit) appeared on my face faster than a black hole can swallow one! But what was I doing on the off days, when I didn't use the soap? OCM, mostly using evening primrose but sometimes hemp oil. What caused the bigger than normal acne? I don't know. I half-assed used the oil cleansing method, half-assed used the soap. Probably not enough of either to say whether they helped or hurt. And certainly not enough to blame any one ingredient. I may come around to OCM again, but the bar, well it's for the body now.

MzMolly65 said:

I made a Moroccan soap that is 100% OO and made with KOH, so technically it's a liquid soap .. but it's in a paste form, not liquid. ...My complexion looks smoother, softer, and much less ruddy and more even toned... thrilled and won't be using anything else on my face .. ever again.

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MzMolly, I'm thrilled for you too! Is this the soap you made for Tadelakt that you posted in Dec? http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=40588&page=6

Lin, I also use grape seed oil, my face looks better than ever after starting the oil cleansing method. I only do this 3 times a week. I love it.

I've started not doing it every day, I skip days and just rinse with water now when at my bf place. At home my face doesn't like the water and I break out after a shower, so I don't skip days because I'm always in a cycle of clearing up what broke out from the last shower (I don't shower everyday and don't wash my hair every shower, so I try to keep my face dry when I can.) I'm thinking about trying to wash with distilled water lol. And I've noticed if I borrow a washcloth, it bugs my skin due to the different detergent plus fabric softener that my roommates use. I try to keep all my laundry separate including towels.

Part of my routine is Avocado oil after washing, and if I get a bad pimple I sometimes apply some vinegar and water mix with a qtip. Before doing the oil cleansing I sometimes wiped my face with water and vinegar mixture instead of washing. It was great in the summer, too drying in winter. The vinegar works like salicylic acid for acne but is weaker and gentler.

Lin, how do you know it is the water? Are you putting nothing else on your face in the shower, and only using OCM at other times? I wonder what would be in there that would make you break out. How awful that something so basic could cause that. But at least you have pinpointed a problem. I wouldn't even have thought of water, though I have traveled enough to know that something else is going on for me.

And speaking of water... I've been wondering if a simple salt water rinse might help my situation. If the salt bar (with its high CO) doesn't improve things, that may be my next step -- along with the antisoap of course!

I don't wash my face in the shower, I usually always wash my face before bed so that if I've put anything on it like some concealer (only makeup I wear) that its washed off before I go to bed, and also to try and keep my pillow cases clean. And I wash and swap my pillowcases much more frequently now too, not sure if its helping but its not hurting lol. Anyway, so my washing face routine doesn't change around showers, and sometimes I really don't shower very often. I only wash my hair once a week, sometimes I'll rinse it under the water between 'real' washes, but if I'm not going anywhere important I won't even bother with that. (I'm disabled and not currently able to work) And my face will always be blotchy looking after a shower, and I'll break out somewhat within the next 24 hours. And this DOESN'T happen when I stay at my bfs place, so I also know its not the shower in general but its the water itself. Inbetween showers my face 'heals' but then I always get a couple new spots after a shower. If I take a bunch of showers, I can end up pretty broken out.

I'm not too surprised, I want to get a new filtering showerhead when I have the money. I used to have one that was 30 bucks off ebay, I think its around the same price, and I actually still have an unopened filter for it and they cost something like 20 bucks (but last 6 months to a year) so I want to get the same one. At one apartment, the water was so bad it actually gave me a rash. If I washed my hands in the kitchen or did dishes without gloves I'd get a rash on my hands and wrists. So it bothering my face didn't surprise me too much when I narrowed it down!

That is very interesting, Lin. I'm glad you've found some help in grapeseed OCM. I may have to try that as well.

MzMolly65 said:

Well .. I can only speak about my personal experience, not on the comedogenicity of olive oil.

I made a Moroccan soap that is 100% OO and made with KOH, so technically it's a liquid soap .. but it's in a paste form, not liquid.

Since I've started using this soap I have had no pimples at all, my skin is squeaky clean but not dried (I haven't used moisturizer once since) and I have had a tomato red face my whole life .. but not since using this soap. My complexion looks smoother, softer, and much less ruddy and more even toned.

I'm thrilled and won't be using anything else on my face .. ever again.

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Hi MzMolly65,

I am always interested in making an acne soap for my teenagers. They have cystic pimples on their face and they stressed them out greatly. Of course, we made several doctor's visits, but they don't like to take prescribed medicine.

After reading your comment about Moroccan soap, I wanted to make this soap for my kids. Did you used Pilar's recipe(Moroccan soap / Soap beldi)? Including the black olives? Please help.

Thank you very much!

Lin said:

This isn't soap, but when I tried the oil cleansing method with olive oil my skin hated it. After the first couple days my skin looked better, and then it went badly downhill. I stopped for about 6 months and then tried again after reading some articles about people having problems with olive oil, and used grapeseed which my skin loves and has never looked better. My skin feels so smooth without tons of whiteheads I used to have, and my pores (HUGE on my nose which has driven me nuts my whole life) have shrunk.

Good luck with the soap!!

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I am really glad you brought this up- I have never heard of oil cleansing before but it sounds like something I need to try. Thank you!

Well let's look at a some EO's for helping with acne as well. Rose oil helps inflammation also oregano, nutmeg, lemon grass, dill and peppermint. Antibacterial oils include Neem, Tea tree, peppermint, oregano and thyme. Witch hazel and cypress oil might also be good to reduce the blood flow to minimize redness as well. Will add more as I can remember it.

Some of these can actually be triggers. Peppermint and witch hazel are two I definitely avoid on my face. Neem soap seemed like it worked for awhile, but after a few weeks it set me off too. I have to be really careful not to overdo it with something that initially doesn't cause a problem; apparently I develop sensitivities easily. I started OCM again this week, with intent to use it every other day at most. I'm just not sure what to do in between - it seems strange not to wash at all like some people suggest!

My antisoap is curing more; it still caused redness when I tried it a few weeks ago.