About Soap Calc
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Hmm...good question. I don't know. I always assumed it meant the oils didn't strip the skin of oils and had a high percentage of fatty acids like oleic and linoleic, etc. Since soap is a rinse off product, I wouldn't think much would remain to absorb into the skin. On the other hand, I like a higher superfat so oil is left on my skin and there may possibly be a little amount of absorption. However, absorption or penetration into the skin is dependent upon the molecular weight of a substance. I've read it can take a long time for oil to penetrate the epidermis and generally doesn't make it past the lowest skin layer. (I know I keep saying it but I really need to get my old textbooks out and re-read about the permeability of skin. I can't even name the skin layers anymore. 
)
Maybe someone else will have an answer. I'll try to remember to get my books out and double check about oils.
)Maybe someone else will have an answer. I'll try to remember to get my books out and double check about oils.
Conditioning relates to the amounts of oleic, ricinoleic, and linoleic fatty acids in the soap recipe, not the oils from which these fatty acids come from. You're breaking the fats apart into their component glycerin and fatty acids when you make soap.
"The numbers" in SoapCalc do not address the free fats (superfat) that might be in the soap. "The numbers" for a soap recipe at a zero lye discount will be the same as for the same recipe with a 10% lye discount, for example.
If you want to evaluate the skin absorption of a fat, you need to look at that parameter directly -- I really don't think the SoapCalc numbers go there at all.
"The numbers" in SoapCalc do not address the free fats (superfat) that might be in the soap. "The numbers" for a soap recipe at a zero lye discount will be the same as for the same recipe with a 10% lye discount, for example.
If you want to evaluate the skin absorption of a fat, you need to look at that parameter directly -- I really don't think the SoapCalc numbers go there at all.
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PinkCupcake
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And what about INS and Iondine numbers? Do you read those numbers, what do they mean? I think I got great recipe – just looking at the numbers. But then my Iondine is 60, so in a middle of the range, but INS number is only 136. Hmmmm
I don't have an short way to explain INS and iodine values and I honestly hate typing on my iPad which is all I have right now.
But if you are going to use soap calc I really stress using it to learn how the fatty acids work in soap and study the effects of the oils you use as they relate to actual soap. The "numbers" are just a reflection of how the program works based on how it was written. And different soap calculators use different numbers. A good example is the hardness number for olive oil and the bubbles number for castor. Soap calc has the number as 90 for bubbles on a 100% castor oil soap when in reality a 100% castor soap won't bubble at all. Also when quoting the "numbers" it limits the help you get from soapers that don't use that program.
But if you are going to use soap calc I really stress using it to learn how the fatty acids work in soap and study the effects of the oils you use as they relate to actual soap. The "numbers" are just a reflection of how the program works based on how it was written. And different soap calculators use different numbers. A good example is the hardness number for olive oil and the bubbles number for castor. Soap calc has the number as 90 for bubbles on a 100% castor oil soap when in reality a 100% castor soap won't bubble at all. Also when quoting the "numbers" it limits the help you get from soapers that don't use that program.
Twiggy,
INS is an acronym for iodine and SAP. I basically ignore it as long as I'm within the 136-170 range stated on SoapCalc.
I think 60 for iodine is great. I try to keep the iodine number at 70 or less since I was told a long time ago this helps with preventing rancidity. I won't swear this is absolutely correct but I haven't had problems with DOS.
There is more info about these here --> http://www.soapcalc.net/info/SoapQualities.asp
You also might find these threads helpful.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=36717
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=5215
Not specific to your question but I thought some info was interesting.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=12885
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=23950
Thank you!!! I know that may be irritating for you, the concentration of some new soapers on those numbers, but I just need to understand them – than I will let it go
Sisrtrum, somehow I believe you LOL I deeply hate typing on iP – stuff! Yesterday I read you post at 3am my time on my iPhone, and I decided to answer next day on normal keyboard
“Soap calc has the number as 90 for bubbles on a 100% castor oil soap when in reality a 100% castor soap won't bubble at all.“
Great example! And you are completely right with quoting the numbers :\ I didn’t thought about it that way.
Hazel, that’s great – thanks for all this links. I’m in an education mode! But I cannot help it, is very interesting for me hahaha
Sisrtrum, somehow I believe you LOL I deeply hate typing on iP – stuff! Yesterday I read you post at 3am my time on my iPhone, and I decided to answer next day on normal keyboard
“Soap calc has the number as 90 for bubbles on a 100% castor oil soap when in reality a 100% castor soap won't bubble at all.“
Great example!
And you are completely right with quoting the numbers :\ I didn’t thought about it that way.Hazel, that’s great – thanks for all this links. I’m in an education mode! But I cannot help it, is very interesting for me hahaha
judymoody
Well-Known Member
Twiggy, a thoughtful, intelligent question is never irritating. Education (as well as the chance to sigh over beautiful soap pictures ) is why this forum is here. Your questions help others to learn as well.
) is why this forum is here. Your questions help others to learn as well.
I second judymoody's comment. Please believe that if your question had irritated me, I'd never have answered it. 
Also, sistrum made a good point about the numbers on soapcalc just being a reflection of how the program was written. You should take the SC numbers with a grain of salt since I don't think the numbers take into account liquids, additives and lye discount/superfat. As examples, I have a recipe which is a lot creamier and more conditioning when I use cream as the liquid as opposed to water and another recipe has a low bubbly value but I get lots of bubbles when I use beer or wine for the liquid. I also have another recipe with a low conditioning value and I use less of lye discount with it and it's just as conditioning as another recipe which has a higher conditioning value and a larger lye discount.
I've mentioned this before but I believe there is a synergistic effect with oils. I don't know how else to explain this recipe since I also use water for the liquid. The high conditioning recipe was one I created for a sister when she had been complaining about how dry her skin got during cold weather. She said she loved it and it really helped. I gave her a bar of the low conditioning one just to get some feedback. I didn't tell her anything about it because I didn't want to influence her opinion. She told me later she preferred it since it was even better for her skin and she loved the lather. (I prefer it, too.) Basically, I'm saying the numbers give you an idea of an outcome. You have to make it to find out what it will really be like.
I hope I haven't confused you with my convoluted response. :crazy:
Also, sistrum made a good point about the numbers on soapcalc just being a reflection of how the program was written. You should take the SC numbers with a grain of salt since I don't think the numbers take into account liquids, additives and lye discount/superfat. As examples, I have a recipe which is a lot creamier and more conditioning when I use cream as the liquid as opposed to water and another recipe has a low bubbly value but I get lots of bubbles when I use beer or wine for the liquid. I also have another recipe with a low conditioning value and I use less of lye discount with it and it's just as conditioning as another recipe which has a higher conditioning value and a larger lye discount.
I've mentioned this before but I believe there is a synergistic effect with oils. I don't know how else to explain this recipe since I also use water for the liquid. The high conditioning recipe was one I created for a sister when she had been complaining about how dry her skin got during cold weather. She said she loved it and it really helped. I gave her a bar of the low conditioning one just to get some feedback. I didn't tell her anything about it because I didn't want to influence her opinion. She told me later she preferred it since it was even better for her skin and she loved the lather. (I prefer it, too.) Basically, I'm saying the numbers give you an idea of an outcome. You have to make it to find out what it will really be like.
I hope I haven't confused you with my convoluted response. :crazy:
Here's a quote from an old soaping manual that I like....
"The simple possession of the finest collection of formulas is evidently no more sufficient to make a competent soapmaker than a choice collection of prescriptions will make a physician, for in both cases formulas are only the smaller part of the required knowledge."
So I truly believe Only with experience, testing and a good understanding of your oils and how they work together will anyone become a good soap maker. Sissy
"The simple possession of the finest collection of formulas is evidently no more sufficient to make a competent soapmaker than a choice collection of prescriptions will make a physician, for in both cases formulas are only the smaller part of the required knowledge."
So I truly believe Only with experience, testing and a good understanding of your oils and how they work together will anyone become a good soap maker. Sissy
Hazel, you didn’t confuse me at all, thank you for these examples! It really looks like soaping is even more exciting than I ever thought!
Sissi, i think that too, the example with physician is just perfect
Sissi, i think that too, the example with physician is just perfect
I didn't get out my textbooks but I did find some interesting articles online. I hope people find them helpful.
http://personalcaretruth.com/2011/01/the-impermeable-facts-of-skin-penetration-and-absorption/
http://chemistscorner.com/how-do-skin-moisturizers-work/
http://personalcaretruth.com/2011/01/the-impermeable-facts-of-skin-penetration-and-absorption/
http://chemistscorner.com/how-do-skin-moisturizers-work/
You're welcome! I wasn't looking for the articles. I was researching something else and stumbled over the info. I really like both of these sites for the good quality and well written articles.
Hello!
Sorry for starting the post and not continue debating...I was away from the computer and I do not like answering from the mobile phone..I am absolutely unable to type a proper sentence..
Many thanks for all the answers.
Seems like the numbers given by soapcalc are just approximations and not rocket sciences
Hazel, love the article!
Verotxu
Sorry for starting the post and not continue debating...I was away from the computer and I do not like answering from the mobile phone..I am absolutely unable to type a proper sentence..
Many thanks for all the answers.
Seems like the numbers given by soapcalc are just approximations and not rocket sciences
Hazel, love the article!
Verotxu
Don't worry about it; especially since you're not the only one. :wink: I'm glad you liked the articles but in one way, I don't think they really answer your question. But it is interesting info.
