Complaints of CP soap melting to fast

mbeachysoap · Aug 29, 2013

I have had two people tell me that my CP soap melts 3 times faster than store bought soap .. any suggestions or comments?

75% extra light olive oil
25% coconut oil
1oz fragrance oil for 2lbs

Am I doing something wrong?

dagmar88 · Aug 29, 2013

How long has it been cured?

azimuth · Aug 29, 2013

I've had soaps cured for 6 months and people still complain. I would like to know, too.

lsg · Aug 29, 2013

You might try adding some sodium lactate to your recipes to see if that helps.

mbeachysoap · Aug 29, 2013

cured 3 months now

DeeAnna · Aug 29, 2013

Try adding some "in between" fats -- palm, lard, tallow, etc. -- to your recipe. Your recipe could use some additional hardness and lower water solubility if you want to make it last longer in the shower. These fats will help with that.

Coconut oil soap adds hardness, but the high % of lauric and myristic fatty acids in CO also make a soap that dissolves quick in water -- that's why CO soap is the classic soap for use in cold or hard water.

The oleic fatty acids in olive oil make a soap that tends to be softer without a long cure, so it abrades away faster on the washcloth.

The "in between" fats add palmitic and stearic fatty acids to the mix. These fatty acids make soaps which are not too soft and not too soluble.

mbeachysoap · Aug 29, 2013

@Deeanna .. as far as the palm, lard, tallow .. at what percentage should I add these and can you name more ... please?
Also water is at 38% .. what would you suggest?
Thank you

renata · Aug 29, 2013

Mybeachysoap, I would substitute some olive oil with palm oil, for example:
25% coconut oil
40% palm oil
35% olive oil

I always check my recipe on soapcalc and try to stay within sugested range of hardness, cleansing, conditionig etc.

mbeachysoap · Aug 29, 2013

@renata .. Thank you.. I have to order Palm oil on line (and I will) as I cannot find it anywhere .. can you suggest any other oils a little easier to find locally? Im sure Lard will be easy just don't like to list "lard" on my ingredients .. also do you know what water % works best (I do 38%)

DeeAnna · Aug 29, 2013

There are a lot of right answers to your question -- Renata gave you a very good direction to head by replacing some of your OO. I'd try her suggested recipe, to be honest.

The old debate about the use of animal oils ... I don't really want to go there. All I will say is if you don't care to use lard or tallow, the local options might be limited. Check local organic food co-ops, bulk food stores, and Amish/Mennonite groceries. You might also want to consider a hydrogenated product like Crisco -- read the label for the ingredients, but I believe it's typically veg oil based and would provide fats in that "in between" niche.

Regarding water discount ... from my chemistry background, I just can't wrap my mind around the idea of calculating water as a % of the oils, so I don't have a handy number off the top of my head for you in the terminology you are used to using.

I always figure the amount of water and lye looking at the lye solution itself. I normally use a 33% lye solution (1 part NaOH to 2 parts water) for most of my soap recipes and it works well for me.

renata · Aug 30, 2013

I agree with DeeAnna, there is so many options. I've never tried lard or tallow, but it is supposed to have the same hardening effect as Palm oil. You can also try shea butter but it's quite expensive.
You can buy Palm oil at a grocery store as a fat for cooking. it's not cold pressed or organic but I think it is just ok for the first time to try it and see if it works for you. And check the online stores - Palm oil is not expensive. I try to buy sustainable Palm oil.

I always use 38% water. Don't ask me why

It's a default % in soapcalc and it works for me just fine

dagmar88 · Aug 30, 2013

mbeachysoap said:
cured 3 months now

That's very little time for soap with such a high percentage of olive oil.

mbeachysoap · Aug 30, 2013

Ok DeeAnna .. thank you for your advice .. the water % I got was from soapcalc and that was already in there. Maybe I'm a little confused. I do appreciate all the help. I have used Crisco and probably will again.

mbeachysoap · Aug 30, 2013

Ok based on all of your suggestions I am adjusting my recipe using an "in between oil". As per dagmar88's comment I did not know that using 75% Olive oil required more curing time so adjusting that as well using ranata's oil % guide. Glad I came to this forum. You all are so helpful and I am learning more and more .. thank you all so much :smile:

DeeAnna · Aug 30, 2013

"...the water % I got was from soapcalc and that was already in there...."

Yep, don't worry about it -- that water setting will work fine. I use a little less water, but it's a personal choice. You don't need to change it.

azimuth · Aug 31, 2013

Would the water % amount really make a big difference in how long it lasts though?

Ancel · Aug 31, 2013

No, it'll make a difference initially in how hard the bar will be for unmolding, but I don't believe it affects the longevity of the bar.

sistrum · Sep 1, 2013

I've found using less water makes for a longer lasting bar. Try using just twice as much water as lye. That's a 33% lye solution like stated above. Also soaps that have fully gelled last longer than soaps that have not gelled.

Saswede · Sep 1, 2013

I actually provide people with a written description of the difference between artisan-made natural soap and store bought soap, so that they know that the glycerine in my soap bar will make it softer - but also more moisturizing. And I also include a few lines explaining that they should use a soap holder that allows the soap to drain well (and not sit in a pool of water) as this will maximize the life of the bar.

Feedback on this approach has been very positive, and a few people have actually said that they like the fact that my natural soap bars don't break up when they're almost finished, like the harder store bought soaps tend to do.

Sent from my iPad using Soap Making

dagmar88 · Sep 1, 2013

mbeachysoap said:
Ok based on all of your suggestions I am adjusting my recipe using an "in between oil". As per dagmar88's comment I did not know that using 75% Olive oil required more curing time so adjusting that as well using ranata's oil % guide. Glad I came to this forum. You all are so helpful and I am learning more and more .. thank you all so much :smile:

;-) It can take up to a year for 100% olive oil soap to reach it's full potential.

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