Soap snail trails

Wendy.B · Jun 17, 2013

Hi folks..

I have made this batch of soap .. olive, coconut, palm oils, shea butter, castor oil and essential oil. and when I cut it up, it looks like little snail trails through it, I have never had it happen before.. the only thing I can think of is I soaped at a too low temp.. I was hoping that you may have a perils of wisdom or two. Thanks so much.

Wendy.B

Hazel · Jun 17, 2013

I'm not sure but it reminds me of stearic spots/streaks. They tend to appear when using palm which hasn't been stirred well and using low temps. From what I've read, stearic acid can settle or separate in palm oil. It doesn't affect the soap, it's a cosmetic issue.

But this is just what I think happened and it may not be stearic. Maybe someone else may know for sure what caused it.

danahuff · Jun 17, 2013

I have had that happen to me when my soap gets a little too hot, especially if I use titanium dioxide. If I don't gel the soap, it doesn't happen. Did you use TD to lighten the top part where the streaks mostly are?

Wendy.B · Jun 17, 2013

danahuff said:
I have had that happen to me when my soap gets a little too hot, especially if I use titanium dioxide. If I don't gel the soap, it doesn't happen. Did you use TD to lighten the top part where the streaks mostly are?

Yes, I did use TD I don't think it was a huge amount.

danahuff · Jun 17, 2013

I know what you mean, Wendy. It has happened to me when I didn't think I used a huge amount, either. I don't know if it has anything to do with how much you use, but it's just something I've seen happen to my soaps when I use TD and gel.

stargazer44 · Jun 18, 2013

Could it be glycerin rivers? I sometimes get these in my soaps, usually with TD. It's hit and miss though. I can make 2 batches at once, and only one will have the rivers.

AngelMomma · Jun 18, 2013

I have had it happen with TD also. I have used the same recipe and added sugar to one, and not to the other. The one with sugar would get the rivers in it because it gets hotter I guess. So if I use TD and I really want to use sugar or something else that adds heat I can just not gel it. Then its fine.

Wendy.B · Jun 18, 2013

Bizarre, Just the little idiosyncrasies of soap making I guess - I'm in no hurry for it to happen again lol
I can't really sell it like that either, I could call it the "ugly but interesting soap"

Ruthie · Jun 18, 2013

You can still sell them. I just did my first craft show in 10 years and had a basket of "imperfects" that I sold for $1 off and people snapped them up like crazy. I did assure them that the problem was purely cosmetic.

pamielynn · Jun 18, 2013

Oh yeah - that's TD

But now, your soaps are "marbled" - yay!

DeeAnna · Jun 18, 2013

The old soap makers (1800s-early 1900s) made mottled soaps that were popular with the customers of the day. They would add a coloring agent to a finished soap, pour the soap into "frames" (large molds), and carefully control the rate of cooling.

The stearic soaps would solidify into pale-colored clumps first, essentially concentrating the color into the remaining fluid oleic soap. When the oleic soaps solidified, this soap made "rivers" of darker color around the stearic clumps. The size and appearance of the mottles were controlled by the oils in the recipe, the way the finished soap was handled, and the rate of cooling in the frames.

Maybe you've created the modern day CP version of a mottled soap?

danahuff · Jun 18, 2013

Sometimes I put soaps in the freezer to prevent it, and sometimes I just let it happen if it's going to happen and call it "antique" or something. If you are actually going for that effect, it can be pretty cool.

But if you don't like it, you can do as Ruthie suggests and sell them as seconds.

DeeAnna · Jun 18, 2013

If the soap is pleasant and mild on the skin and reasonably attractive, I would certainly sell them as "firsts". Just because the "look" is not quite what you had in mind does not make it any less useful, appealing, or interesting to the customer.

Many of my customers enjoy learning neat tidbits about the product they are buying. I would certainly give a mini history lesson about mottled soap as a selling point for these "antique" soaps.

Kersten · Jun 18, 2013

I have been experimenting with this look for a bit, because I quite like the effect in some of my soaps. What I have found to work well is adding TD, sugar, liquid color, and lots of insulation to get the temp up. I'm still experimenting by tweaking each variable so I can nail-down the technique....here is my latest attempt (a rose geranium blend):

I should add that my recipe has a decent amount of stearic, as well, but nothing over the top...

Hazel · Jun 18, 2013

Kersten -

That is very cool looking soap!

So, my reply was incorrect but I never thought of TD. I've never experienced this result with TD although I have gotten several batches with paler streaks and spots which I was told was stearic which had separated from the palm I used.

Out of curiosity - which type of TD is everyone using? Water or oil dispersible? I've only used the oil dispersible.

Kersten · Jun 18, 2013

Hazel said:
Kersten -

That is very cool looking soap!

So, my reply was incorrect but I never thought of TD. I've never experienced this result with TD although I have gotten several batches with paler streaks and spots which I was told was stearic which had separated from the palm I used.

Out of curiosity - which type of TD is everyone using? Water or oil dispersible? I've only used the oil dispersible.

Thanks Hazel! I really like the molten look, too. The real test will be if I can do it every time. No luck with that, yet, but I'm getting there. I think it may be the temperature that is key. It seems like when I use the "tall and skinny" mold, I can get it every time, but with the standard loaf mold, it is hit-or-miss.

I thought DeeAnna's post about the old-school method was really interesting. I'm going to experiment with the heating and cooling rate a bit and see what happens. I might even tweak my oils, too, once I have played with the temp. for a bit. I love the experimentation part of soapmaking. Now if I could just win the lotto so I can fund my "studies" ;-)

As far as TD, I use the one from BB that is advertised as both water and oil dispensable, but I like dispersing it in water; it seems to work better form me as far as avoiding TD specks.

Kersten · Jun 18, 2013

Hazel said:
Kersten -

That is very cool looking soap!

So, my reply was incorrect but I never thought of TD. I've never experienced .

I forgot to add that I don't think you are incorrect about the stearic. My thought (and I could be completely wrong) is that the TD and the sugar help to heat the soap to a higher temp, which spurs the separation/streaks (provided there is enough stearic). So far I haven't gotten any of my batches to streak without TD.

Kersten · Jun 18, 2013

I have one last post (sorry for hijacking the thread). I did some google'n on mottled soap (because I will figure this out!) and found this free ebook that touches on it:
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=yaVc8F_Pcr4C&rdid=book-yaVc8F_Pcr4C&rdot=1

I haven't read it yet, but I did scan it quickly and saw that they mention there is a min. water content needed to achieve the look...I found this really interesting, because it seems I am more successful when I use a liquid colorant, and because I often forget, I usually don't account for it as part of my total water, so those batches have more water....

AngelMomma · Jun 18, 2013

Hazel, I think the only way to know for sure that it doesn't also have something to do with the stearic acid is to do some experimenting on that front. But I have had some soaps that only had part of the batch have TD added and that was the only part that had the rivers in it. The rest of the bar would look normal. Because a lot of people do associate it with stearic it makes me wonder if I did a lower stearic recipe, with TD, with sugary ingredients, water discount and gelled it(maybe even CPOP).......I wonder what the result would be.

I use TD from Oregon Trails. It disperses perfectly in water.

DeeAnna · Jun 18, 2013

I am really enjoying the conversation about what causes this mottling/streaking. I'll do some reading in the reference you gave, Kersten!

The old soap makers were working with "boiled" soap. Boiled soap consisted of "grains" of finished soap suspended in a brine. The brine was a heated solution of water, weak lye (NaOH and/or KOH), and salt (table salt). They were experts at controlling the temperature and the amount of the brine to get the results they wanted in terms of the soap consistency and coloring.

Your comments, Kersten, about using a little extra water with your TD and colorants fits the mental picture I have of this boiled soap. I honestly think you may be on to something.

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