Water Discount

jcorelle · Nov 27, 2011

I want to try making a 100% olive oil soap with a water discount. I'm using soapcalc.net for my recipes and I'm a little confused because there are 3 different fields I can use: water as % of oils, lye concentration and water:lye ratio.

Is there a good webpage/article that explains how to make CP soap with a water discount?

What are some numbers that people have worked with? I want to make an olive oil soap that will be hard enough to use by Christmas.

Thanks!

jcorelle · Nov 27, 2011

Also, I was reading this article:

http://candleandsoap.about.com/gi/o.htm ... edcp1.html

In it they say "Now the important point to remember is, the amount of water is determined based on how much sodium hydroxide is needed - *not* on the weight of the oils." So is it better to go with field number 2 in the soapcalc.net calculator (lye concentration)?

fiddletree · Nov 27, 2011

Everyone uses a different amount of water, and depending on the OO, if it gels, and water amount it might harden up within 12 hours, or it might take days.

Either way, it won't be ready to use for Christmas! OO soap should cure a looooooooong time. Even if it is hard, I find that OO soap that is under 4 months is slimy. 6 months is better. As long as it isn't lye heavy, it won't hurt you to use it sooner, but it won't be very nice to use unless you wait.

Relle · Nov 27, 2011

If you go into soap calc and look at the FAQ's at the top of the page, answer No. 6 might answer your question.

ericllucas · Nov 27, 2011

Here is what I figured I'd do:

When I am using SLOOOOOW-to-trace veg oils like olive, I'd use water to lye of 1.8:1 (1.8 units of water to 1 unit of lye).

When I am using not so slow to trace oils, or if I'm adding something at trace that speeds things up, I'd move up to maybe 2.2:1.

If you really want to be conservative and you have plenty of time on your hands to blend the batter, you can use 2.75:1. I would not go more than that.

I started a thread called "In Praise of Water Discounting" here, as well. Lots of nifty information there as well.

IrishLass · Nov 27, 2011

I use SoapCalc for all my batches and I like to use their "Lye Concentration' box to figure out a water discount. If you are not sure how much to discount by or what lye concentration % to type in the Lye Concentration box, here is a handy chart to help:

Lye Concentration/Solution Strength Chart:

Lye x 1.0 = 50%- i.e., 1 part lye:1 part water (the highest limit you can go)
Lye x 1.15= 46.5%
Lye x 1.2 = 45.45%
Lye x 1.25= 44.44%
Lye x 1.3 = 43%
Lye x 1.4 = 41.66%
Lye x 1.5 = 40%
Lye x 1.6 = 38%
Lye x 1.7 = 37%
Lye x 1.75= 36%
Lye x 1.8 = 35.7%
Lye x 1.9 = 34.5%
Lye x 2 = 33% (my personal favorite discount- 2 parts water:1 part lye)
Lye x 2.1 = 32%
Lye x 2.3 = 30%
Lye x 2.7 = 27% (what most consider to be a 'full water' amount)
Lye x 3.1 = 25% (also what some consider to be a 'full water' amount)

If I'm making a 100% olive oil batch and my FO is a well behaved one, I usually use a 40% lye concentration (1 part lye :1.5 parts water). If my FO is more of a skittish one but not a seizer, I'll do a 33% lye concentration (1 part lye:2 parts water). Under no circumstances will I ever use a full water amount on a 100% olive oil soap again because of how long it takes to trace and to set up.

IrishLass

ericllucas · Nov 27, 2011

IrishLass said:
Under no circumstances will I ever use a full water amount on a 100% olive oil soap again because of how long it takes to trace and to set up.

Well said.

agriffin · Nov 27, 2011

I completely ignore the water amounts suggested by soap calcs. For a new recipe or when I'm trying out a new fragrance oil I use 2 times my lye amount.

So if my recipe calls for 4.2 oz of lye I use 8.4 oz of water.

For tried and true recipe I use about 1.5 times my lye. So if my recipe calls for 4.2 oz lye then I use 6.3 oz of water.

For a 100% olive oil soap I use equal parts lye and water. If you aren't comfortable with that then I would recommend 1.5 times your lye at the most.

jcorelle · Nov 27, 2011

Thanks everyone, you were really helpful.

I have another question about the lye/water mix. I've never been able to get the lye to fully dissolve in the water. Is that normal?

ericllucas · Nov 27, 2011

What kind of water are you using? Also, are you using pure lye? My lye dissolves within five minutes of stirring. I keep it moving and it eventually just dissolves. I'm using distilled water, too.

carebear · Nov 27, 2011

agriffin said:
I completely ignore the water amounts suggested by soap calcs. For a new recipe or when I'm trying out a new fragrance oil I use 2 times my lye amount.

So if my recipe calls for 4.2 oz of lye I use 8.4 oz of water.

For tried and true recipe I use about 1.5 times my lye. So if my recipe calls for 4.2 oz lye then I use 6.3 oz of water.

For a 100% olive oil soap I use equal parts lye and water. If you aren't comfortable with that then I would recommend 1.5 times your lye at the most.

this

carebear · Nov 27, 2011

jcorelle said:
Thanks everyone, you were really helpful.

I have another question about the lye/water mix. I've never been able to get the lye to fully dissolve in the water. Is that normal?

lye should absolutely dissolve completely. the only caveat is that you need at least as much water as lye. tap water, distilled water, spring water - it should dissolve.

undissolved lye sits on the bottom of the container. sometimes you get "floaters" in the solution which are not undissolved lye - they are probably from a residue in your container or on your spoon - and they are harmless - just ignore them and soap away.

saltydog · Nov 27, 2011

I'd love to try water discounting, and these are great explanations. I cut a new soap today and it was a bit sticky in the middle.

So the biggest benefit to water discounting is a harder bar, faster? Less evaporation to take place?
Amanda and IrishLass, I copied & pasted your advice onto a page for my notebook, hope you don't mind and thank you.

IrishLass · Nov 28, 2011

saltydog said:
So the biggest benefit to water discounting is a harder bar, faster? Less evaporation to take place?

Yes.

saltydog said:
Amanda and IrishLass, I copied & pasted your advice onto a page for my notebook, hope you don't mind and thank you.

You're welcome. I don't mind at all.

IrishLass

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