CherryGardenGirl
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Does anyone have experience making horse or dog shampoo bars??? How do you get the ph adjusted???
Horse and Dog Shampoo Bars
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I'm interested in learning this, too.
I'm interested in learning this, too.
dagmar88
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I haven't made dog/horse soap; but I'm planning on using my 100% tallow soap on my dog when it's cured.
Adjusting PH isn't possible...
Adjusting PH isn't possible...
SoapyMom,
What oils do you use for dogs?
What oils do you use for dogs?
CherryGardenGirl
Well-Known Member
Does homemade soap end up to be a neutral ph then???
I did some reading about horse shampoos and supposedly the most gentle ones are neutral . . . although horses have a high-ish acid mantle. Does citic acid help adjust the ph?
My horse gets serious hives from commercial equine shampoo, my dog has allergies, and I break out from their shampoos If we can all use the same recipes it would solve everything!
I did some reading about horse shampoos and supposedly the most gentle ones are neutral . . . although horses have a high-ish acid mantle. Does citic acid help adjust the ph?
My horse gets serious hives from commercial equine shampoo, my dog has allergies, and I break out from their shampoos
If we can all use the same recipes it would solve everything!
I'm sure it has a lot to do with the ingredients you use in your bars. My dogs don't have any allergies, but I have clients at the grooming shop whose dogs do have severe allergies, and cats, and they've never had a problem with my homemade shampoos. I've used my shampoos on countless horses also, some of which had sensitive skin, and never had a problem with them either.
My base is Olive oil, but I've used multiple other oils and never had any problems. I don't use cream, because that tends to be too oily. For the cats I find that olive oil doesn't work well either, because it's too oily. It doesn't bother the skin at all, but it's oily.
My base is Olive oil, but I've used multiple other oils and never had any problems. I don't use cream, because that tends to be too oily. For the cats I find that olive oil doesn't work well either, because it's too oily. It doesn't bother the skin at all, but it's oily.
I read somewhere that adding citric acid to soap doesn't work. You end up with a big ball of glop. (Yes, this is my technical vocabulary. 
)
Perhaps using base oils which have a lower pH in the shampoo would help to lower it. I've seen meadowfoam oil listed in some natural dog shampoo recipes and I know it has a lower pH (4.1). Mountain Rose Herbs has really good educational oil profiles which list pH values. You could check out the oils you want to use. Don't forget that distilled water has a pH of 7 so that's fairly close to the pH that you want for dogs which I believe is 6.5 to 6.8.
http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/bulkoil/bulkoil.html
Also, did you see this discussion?
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=17185
Thanks SoapyMom for letting us know about the olive oil. It's pH is also 4.1 so there's another oil for you, CherryGardenGirl. We'll get this figured out.
)Perhaps using base oils which have a lower pH in the shampoo would help to lower it. I've seen meadowfoam oil listed in some natural dog shampoo recipes and I know it has a lower pH (4.1). Mountain Rose Herbs has really good educational oil profiles which list pH values. You could check out the oils you want to use. Don't forget that distilled water has a pH of 7 so that's fairly close to the pH that you want for dogs which I believe is 6.5 to 6.8.
http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/bulkoil/bulkoil.html
Also, did you see this discussion?
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=17185
Thanks SoapyMom for letting us know about the olive oil. It's pH is also 4.1 so there's another oil for you, CherryGardenGirl. We'll get this figured out.
SoapyMom said:
The skin's acid mantle tends to be between 4.5-5.5. If you go a little above, it's okay because normally the skin can balance itself within a short period of time. (Except for my skin, I generally always have to use a toner.
) However, to clean the skin, products must have a higher pH which is why it's good to use a toner to restore the acidity of your skin. The acidity of the skin is your body's first defense against bacteria.
Dogs' pH levels vary according to the breed - 6.5-8.6? Something like that. I've heard it's best to keep them at 6.8-7.0 so it would be okay to use on all breeds. Of course, breeds with more acidic skin would actually need a higher pH level to get clean.
I know I've posted about this before and included links to info on dogs. I'll have to go hunt for that post.
Also, I'm not an expert on dogs. I'm learning along with everyone else.
I typed in "dog and shampoo" into Search and still couldn't find the thread. But there is a lot of old discussions about dog shampoos if anyone wants to search.
SoapyMom, I'd say if you're selling and there aren't any complaints then your shampoos probably have a good pH level.
I just realized that none of this is helping CherryGardenGirl with her horse shampoo.
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Pepper
Well-Known Member
Hazel, is your dog 3-legged, 8) or is it just the way he's (she's) standing?
dagmar88
Well-Known Member
CherryGardenGirl said:
Soap (including soapymoms soap) is always alkaline; with a PH from around 9.5 to 10.5.
If you would try to make the PH more neutral with an acidic substance (lemon juice, sulfur, vinegar) it would stop being soap eventually...
There's no way to influence this and PH strips are a waste of time and money (not accurate).
I'd say; come up with a mild recipe, don't wash your pets to often and you'll be fine.
if you want to make a "soap" for animals you really need to think about using detergents (aka syndet = synthetic detergent) because these can be had at almost any pH.
if you use a highly alkaline soap (and the pH is going to be high as this is the NATURE of soap) it can be bad for the animal's skin.
doesn't matter if you use a more acidic oil - once it saponifies it's alkaline. and adding an acidic oil won't shift the pH more than an iota. Adding an acid will leave you with a sludge which is, sadly, no longer soap.
yes you will find people who say they use soap on their pets. this doesn't make it a good idea.
The vets I know, by the way, wouldn't ever recommend true soap for use on animals, and the two groomers I just called said that real soap is not only bad for the skin leaving it dry and flaky but also dulls the coat.
if you use a highly alkaline soap (and the pH is going to be high as this is the NATURE of soap) it can be bad for the animal's skin.
doesn't matter if you use a more acidic oil - once it saponifies it's alkaline. and adding an acidic oil won't shift the pH more than an iota. Adding an acid will leave you with a sludge which is, sadly, no longer soap.
yes you will find people who say they use soap on their pets. this doesn't make it a good idea.
The vets I know, by the way, wouldn't ever recommend true soap for use on animals, and the two groomers I just called said that real soap is not only bad for the skin leaving it dry and flaky but also dulls the coat.
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Pepper said:
3 legged dog Max aka Tripod. Yeah, I know it's not original but that's what my BIL always called him.
carebear quote: "Adding an acid will leave you with a sludge which is, sadly, no longer soap."
That explains citric acid and "glop".
Thanks carebear for the info. I did wonder how the saponification process would effect the pH of the oils because I did know that cleansers have to be slightly alkaline. I guess I won't try to make a shampoo bar for my dogs. I just don't like the smell of the ones I buy and I thought I could make one with a more pleasing scent. I guess it doesn't matter because bath time isn't that often and we bathe them as fast as we can since they act like we're torturing them.
I'd also heard that pH strips aren't very accurate. I had bought some to test the pH of my lotions and creams. Is there something else I could use which would give me a more accurate reading?
there are some great shampoo bases, and bodywash bases that you can get unfragranced - those might work for you. detergents are your friend here. I'm not sure which are really pet-safe, though. You might start by reading up on the ingredients in commercial products.
FOs and EOs are potentially dangerous to an animal that licks it's fur.
FOs and EOs are potentially dangerous to an animal that licks it's fur.
carebear said:
That's a good point about the EOs. I didn't stop to think about it but I do have one cat that occasionally attempts to "groom" the dogs. I'd better not risk it.
Hmm...but then again, he's a really obnoxious cat. :wink:
I'm kidding. I really wouldn't want anything to happen to him.
Galavanting Gifts
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We use and sell our Happy Horse soap with excellent results. Our local animal shelter uses it on their shelter dogs and our local Horse riding school for their horses that suffer with Qld itch as does our customer on his Race horses after finding out the hard way with all the chemical products he was using on his New Zealand bloodline Standardbreds.
Although we have not specified it be used for dogs (only because we are looking at making one specifically for them) our customers as ourselves use it for that purpose without any issues except that on my softer longer coated dog it can leave his coat not oily but soft and dull but saying that he never had a shiny coat to start with. On our short haired dog her coat comes up beautiful as does her skin (she suffers badly from allergies).
We use Sesame, Grapeseed,castor oil,olive oil,sweet almond,coconut and palm oil.
Although we have not specified it be used for dogs (only because we are looking at making one specifically for them) our customers as ourselves use it for that purpose without any issues except that on my softer longer coated dog it can leave his coat not oily but soft and dull but saying that he never had a shiny coat to start with. On our short haired dog her coat comes up beautiful as does her skin (she suffers badly from allergies).
We use Sesame, Grapeseed,castor oil,olive oil,sweet almond,coconut and palm oil.
Thanks for posting! So you just use oils? You don't use EOs?
Galavanting Gifts
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yep just oils no essential oils, we did start off using the Lavender EO in the soap but decided not to continue on with it, not for any particular reason though we just wanted to keep the bars plain althogh whe a customer requests a batch with Lavender EO in it we have no problem with doing so. We also used the same soap on our show goats with long hair.
I didn't think about not using EOs. Now I may reconsider making a bar.
I don't know. I guess I'll put this idea off for awhile until I'm more confident in doing CP. The dogs only get bathed occasionally in the warmer months so this isn't an urgent topic. I'll also talk to my vet and the groomer and see what they say about shampoos.
Thanks for telling us about your shampoo.
I don't know. I guess I'll put this idea off for awhile until I'm more confident in doing CP. The dogs only get bathed occasionally in the warmer months so this isn't an urgent topic. I'll also talk to my vet and the groomer and see what they say about shampoos.
Thanks for telling us about your shampoo.
