Ascorbic Acid (vitamin c)

I recently purchase luxurious goat milk soap from a farmers market and listed as an ingredient is ascorbic acid. I have never heard of vitamin c being used in cp and was wondering what value it has being added.
Thank you.

Hello! Good question and glad you asked. I believe the only benefit is to the seller of the soap. :thumbdown: I seriously doubt it would remain in the soap since this acid reacting with a strong base (lye) creates a new, different substance - a salt - like the fatty acids that are used to make the soap. Anyway, many nutrients will not survive the lye and any leftovers would wash off your body very quickly without any benefits.

It is just for name recognition. I could add all sorts of vitamins to soap but as long I don't say anything about health benefits I am free to do so - as long as I label them in the ingredients. Unethical? I say yes, other people may say no. That soaper just added the Vitamin C and let the customer fill in the blanks as to how the soap will be healthy and beneficial when used.

I wouldn't call it unethical. What is the salt byproduct? What does it do for the skin? I have added apple cider vinegar to soap and was very pleased with the results. I don't know what was created with the lye in the creation but I did like it. Ascorbic and citric acid may create a similar feel as vinegar, it might be worth trying -- I might try it sometime to see what I think. That soaper may be very satisfied with the results of adding vitamin C and not be a con artist in the least.

Overall it may just dilute the Lye and increase the SF%

She might be using it to ****** spoilage?

thebeck said:

She might be using it to ****** spoilage?

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In living cells, damage to cell lipids by free radicals can be limited by a combination of vitamins C & E, but Ireally can't imagine why she'd add C alone. It is technically an antioxidant, but only in water soluble settings. Vitamin E is fat-soluble, so that's why it's added to soaps and other (mostly) anhydrous products.

Earthen_Step said:

I wouldn't call it unethical. What is the salt byproduct? What does it do for the skin? I have added apple cider vinegar to soap and was very pleased with the results. I don't know what was created with the lye in the creation but I did like it. Ascorbic and citric acid may create a similar feel as vinegar, it might be worth trying -- I might try it sometime to see what I think. That soaper may be very satisfied with the results of adding vitamin C and not be a con artist in the least.

Overall it may just dilute the Lye and increase the SF%

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Hi there, thanks for the reply. How do you go about adding your apple cider vinegar to you cp? And what are the pleasing results you have encountered in doing so?

ComplexBeauty said:

Hi there, thanks for the reply. How do you go about adding your apple cider vinegar to you cp? And what are the pleasing results you have encountered in doing so?

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I will tell you some info in a pm. Secrets are fun.

Earthen_Step said:

I will tell you some info in a pm. Secrets are fun.

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But in a forum based around sharing information about soaping............a little bit odd, don't you think? :thumbdown:

The Efficacious Gentleman said:

But in a forum based around sharing information about soaping............a little bit odd, don't you think? :thumbdown:

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No, I hold back a lot on the forums. Especially on things about healing qualities of ingredients. I am using my business name which limits my free speech. Trade secrets and things that could turn my product into a drug can and should be withheld (self preservation). If I were using an anonymous name I would be much more liberal in my speech.

ComplexBeauty said:

I recently purchase luxurious goat milk soap from a farmers market and listed as an ingredient is ascorbic acid. I have never heard of vitamin c being used in cp and was wondering what value it has being added.
Thank you.

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You know, I had no idea why this might happen, until I picked up a tub of lard at my grocery store. I've not made any soap with lard or tallow yet, but I want to! The lard at my store has ascorbic acid in it. I didn't purchase that 4lb tub of lard, as I was hoping to find a smaller container to start with.

Is it possible that the soap you saw was made with lard, and the maker was just listing all the ingredients from their container of lard?

AMyers said:

You know, I had no idea why this might happen, until I picked up a tub of lard at my grocery store. I've not made any soap with lard or tallow yet, but I want to! The lard at my store has ascorbic acid in it. I didn't purchase that 4lb tub of lard, as I was hoping to find a smaller container to start with.

Is it possible that the soap you saw was made with lard, and the maker was just listing all the ingredients from their container of lard?

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That could very well be. Looking around a little bit I found lard with citric acid added (as a preservative).

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/armour-lard-25lb/199699.ip

AMyers said:

Is it possible that the soap you saw was made with lard, and the maker was just listing all the ingredients from their container of lard?

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You make a valid point.


IrishLass

ComplexBeauty said:

How do you go about adding your apple cider vinegar to you cp?

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Since this is a forum that emphasizes helping others learn and expand their skills, I have some apple cider vinegar and I'll make a batch to let you know the results. I probably won't be able to make it until Sunday. I'm just going to use my basic bath bar recipe (see below). However, I'd like to challenge other people to try ACV with one of their basic recipes and let us know how it turns out. :grin:

30% lard
30% olive oil
25% coconut oil
10% sunflower oil (I use high oleic)
5% castor oil


Anyway, there have been discussions about using ACV in soap so I thought I'd post some links which you may find helpful. I didn't bother posting the link from a 2008 discussion because it wasn't helpful at all.

This one will answer your question about adding ACV to a batch. http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42734

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=35563

Discussion about how much hotter lye and vinegar get when combined. http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49491&page=2


Off topic here but I wanted to mention if people don't care to contribute to the forum, please do not hint at having some proprietary knowledge that you don't want to publicly share. Just don't mention it and PM the person you want to share the info with and then it will be your "secret". :shh:

To mention something is a secret on an open forum is not only insulting but also demeaning towards members who generously share tips, techniques and knowledge to help other members. It demonstrates disrespect toward members who have spent countless hours helping others and gives the implication the information they've posted doesn't have value since it is public. This forum is a wonderful resource for people to learn about soapmaking. It wouldn't have been possible without the unselfishness of former and current members to contribute their knowledge and experience in building it.

Hazel said:

Off topic here but I wanted to mention if people don't care to contribute to the forum, please do not hint at having some proprietary knowledge that you don't want to publicly share. Just don't mention it and PM the person you want to share the info with and then it will be your "secret". :shh:

To mention something is a secret on an open forum is not only insulting but also demeaning towards members who generously share tips, techniques and knowledge to help other members. It demonstrates disrespect toward members who have spent countless hours helping others and gives the implication the information they've posted doesn't have value since it is public. This forum is a wonderful resource for people to learn about soapmaking. It wouldn't have been possible without the unselfishness of former and current members to contribute their knowledge and experience in building it.

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I agree Hazel, you said it well.:clap:

Very well stated Hazel (as always!) I'll give ACV a try. Won't be able to do it till next weekend. Will post how it works or doesn't work for me.

Earthen_Step said:

No, I hold back a lot on the forums. Especially on things about healing qualities of ingredients.

Trade secrets and things that could turn my product into a drug can and should be withheld (self preservation).

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That's interesting. So what you're saying is that there are things in your soap, that if you claim certain things about these compounds, could result in your soap being reclassified as a "drug" ...?

To answer your curiosity, Dosco, about whether a soap could be classified as a drug per USA law, yes, that is quite possible. My lowly pine tar soap qualifies if I claim anything other than it gets a body clean.

And regarding an important point made in this discussion -- Hear, hear, Hazel! Well said.

I apologize to you all and meant no disrespect. I can see how this was taken as such. I have a lot on my mind and have not had much time on the forums lately. Even right now as I'm responding I have multiple things I'm doing on the computer, pausing this response to answer my kids questions, getting ready to work outside on a project after I start laundry and other such fun things... Enough excuses though, my quick responses should have been thought out more carefully.

I'll share some info that hopefully helps some. I added the apple cider vinegar at light trace and there seemed to be no adverse reactions. I did not notice any extra heat or accelerations. I have only added this in micro batches in testing new theories. I have only tested up to around 15 grams per 120 grams of oil. I cannot say if going above this amount will cause problems, but I had no issues below this amount. I have not tested adding the vinegar to the lye mixture, only the soap at light trace. I still have a lot of testing to do before I make a full batch. If I have any horrible reactions I'll share, I do not want anyone to get hurt or completely ruin a batch of soap if I can prevent it.

I should not have hinted at anything and just sent out a PM and shared the above info initially. Lesson learned the hard way, sorry again.

dosco said:

That's interesting. So what you're saying is that there are things in your soap, that if you claim certain things about these compounds, could result in your soap being reclassified as a "drug" ...?

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If I said anything about any ingredient that heals in any way, that turns any soap I sell with that ingredient into a drug. The FDA could harass me because of this if they were bored enough -- or I got big enough.

http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceRegulation/LawsRegulations/ucm074201.htm

At a 5% acetic solution, 30 g of commercial vinegar (white, cider, or whatever -- it makes no difference) will neutralize 1 g of NaOH or 1.4 g of KOH. The result is sodium or potassium acetate.

If I use commercial vinegar for all of the "water" in my favorite soap recipe, the vinegar would increase the superfat from my usual 5% to a substantial 12%. If you use an 8% superfat, a "vinegar-ized" soap would end up being superfatted closer to 15%.

Citric acid also can be used in soap, so for those who are wondering:
Typical dosage: 10 g citric acid for every 1,000 g oils (1% ppo)
10 g citric acid neutralizes 6 g NaOH
10 g citric acid neutralizes 8 g KOH