HELP! Trying to formulate moisturizing Dog Shampoo Bar - Need help from a pro!!

If you can smell cocoa butter in a soap, you have a better nose than any dog! The butter will be a salt, not a butter - unless you count the tiny amount of superfat. As I said in the hp thread, what something is like before you saponify it can often have no or very little similarity to how it is after it is saponified.

When we had a skunky dog, I washed him with my charcoal bar (that was very super fatted), and rinsed him with my home canned tomato sauce. It worked pretty well, except I don't wash my dog's face with anything, ever, so I have to wait out skunky scent on that part of him. Thank goodness that doesn't happen often.

I have a soap recipe in front of me that's titled 'Herbal Canine Shampoo Bar', from The Essential Herbal magazine. I've made it for humans, it's a lovely soap. The article talks about how nice this is on the sensitive skin of a dog. It is made with a cole water Althaea root decoction and powdered Althaea Root (marshmallow) Yes, it has essential oils in it for fragrance, but none of them are oils that are contraindicated for dogs. I can't for the life of me imagine anyone suggesting commercial dog shampoo, full of chemicals, is better than a gentle soap for washing our best friends.

I'll have to get permission to share the recipe from Marci, the author, if there is any interest.

my dog got it mostly in the face
and in the mouth
her fur smells not too bad (only a slight scent on her muzzle), but her breath smells like skunk really strong still LOL

my dads friend as a kid tricked his brothers into playing with a skunk, and they got sprayed in the mouth. they ate a bar of soap because that was LESS bad than the skunk. NASTY!

JayBird said:

When we had a skunky dog, I washed him with my charcoal bar (that was very super fatted), and rinsed him with my home canned tomato sauce. It worked pretty well, except I don't wash my dog's face with anything, ever, so I have to wait out skunky scent on that part of him. Thank goodness that doesn't happen often.

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I would love to see the recipe, if possible. thanks!

right now im thinking im might go with a simple 25% coconut, 65% olive, 10% shea superfatted to 2% (or 0%?) and then add in after HP argan oil and jojoba oil and oat flower (and possibly milk powder...) for a total superfat of 10% (or 8%?). After I try that I can adjust based on the properties I like/dislike in the bar and try out other additives.

i like the idea of those baby bars that are almost all olive oil, but i dont want to wait 6 months for it to harden! lol

reinbeau said:

I have a soap recipe in front of me that's titled 'Herbal Canine Shampoo Bar', from The Essential Herbal magazine. I've made it for humans, it's a lovely soap. The article talks about how nice this is on the sensitive skin of a dog. It is made with a cole water Althaea root decoction and powdered Althaea Root (marshmallow) Yes, it has essential oils in it for fragrance, but none of them are oils that are contraindicated for dogs. I can't for the life of me imagine anyone suggesting commercial dog shampoo, full of chemicals, is better than a gentle soap for washing our best friends.

I'll have to get permission to share the recipe from Marci, the author, if there is any interest.

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Coconut Oil (92 deg) 26 percent
Flaxseed infused in Olive Oil pomace 40 percent
Rice Bran Oil 25 percent
Mango butter 9 percent

I would never use more than 20% Coconut oil as it can be really drying to my skin. And if you have to bathe the dog, your skin will get dry also, not to mention the dog's skin.

Also, if the dog(as well as you) has crazy allergies, I would steer far away from adding protein containing ingredients such as milk and "oat flower", as the proteins are what you typically react to in an allergen.

I find anything over 50% olive needs a little but more time before I can unmould and cut. But as for sure, it shouldn't need too long. Your first bar at four weeks won't compare to a bar at right weeks, especially when lathered on a furry body - just so you don't get down when you use it and it doesn't seem to last long.

thanks!

I have Camelina oil, which is pretty much the same as flax seed oil for nutritional value (super high in omega 3), but its super shelf stable (2 years unrefrigerated!) and tastes and smells better. And it can be used in super high heat cooking and does not create carcinogens at high heats.

mango butter is astringent so i am hesitant to use it for my dog. it irritates my skin. so i would swap that for shea.

i think thats the recipe thats used on soaping101 for a dog shampoo. looks familiar.

biarine said:

Coconut Oil (92 deg) 26 percent
Flaxseed infused in Olive Oil pomace 40 percent
Rice Bran Oil 25 percent
Mango butter 9 percent

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i am allergic to eating oats. i react quite badly, even when they are guaranteed gluten-free.

but i have been using an oatmeal lotion (aveeno) on my whole body for years and its the only one i find soothing. so i will try it with the oats, but if my dog reacts to the oats I will cut them out. i may leave out the milk. i do know argan oil is great for both me and my dog.

my only concern with reducing the coconut is it would make the bar super soft.

its strange how people always say dogs are like their owners, and its sooo true. both me and my dog have LOTS of allergies and crazy sensitive skin.
and our personalities are quite similar.

Susie said:

I would never use more than 20% Coconut oil as it can be really drying to my skin. And if you have to bathe the dog, your skin will get dry also, not to mention the dog's skin.

Also, if the dog(as well as you) has crazy allergies, I would steer far away from adding protein containing ingredients such as milk and "oat flower", as the proteins are what you typically react to in an allergen.

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You can do what you want, but I'm curious as to why you'd want to play with a potentially serious allergen (shea butter). I mean, I'm assuming you're going to be the one bathing your dog.

Anyhow, another question would be why limit animal fats in your dog's soap, when you buy dog food that has animal fat in it as well? I think you'll find tallow and lard to be exceptional for sensitive skin. On the plus side, it will harden your bar without the risks of the other butters that you're considering. You say it's for ethical reasons, can't you find any that's ethically sourced -- like organic, grass fed tallow?

Just food for thought.

Well, this recipe breaks some of the 'rules' some of you are following, all I can say is it's a wonderful soap and I'd have no problem using it on myself, as well as my dog. Posted with permission of the author.

Herbal Canine Shampoo Bar (or, Human Deep Woods Outdoor Soap) by Marci Tsohonis

This recipe makes 100.4 ounces of soap (6 lbs, 4 oz.)

Prepare overnight Althaea Root Decoction (I have powdered Althaea Root, it worked fine). Weigh 1 oz. cut and sifted Althaea Root. Cover with 10 oz. COLD distilled water and a lid to prevent evaporation. Allow to steep overnight at room temp. Althaea Root is mucilaginous, so in the morning you'll discover the water is slightly slimy and a bit thicker. Strain the thickened liquid from the root and set aside. You will add a weighed 6 oz. of this decoction to the soap pot right after the Lye Solution has been blended in.

Oils (you could use calendula, comfrey or plantain infused olive oil if you have it):

19 oz. Coconut Oil
26 Oz. Olive Oil
3.50 oz. Avocado Oil
4.50 oz. Castor Oil
4 oz. Rice Bran Oil
3 oz. Jojoba Oil
2 oz. Shea Butter
3.50 oz. Wheat Germ Oil
2 oz. Neem Oil
2 oz. Palm Kernel Oil

Lye solution (can be prepared the night before when preparing the Althaea Root Decoction and the Essential Oil Blend):

19 oz. distilled water (discounted as the balance of the water is in the Althaea decoction)
9.25 oz. Sodium Hydroxide (discounted at 10%)

Herbal Additives:

6 oz. Mucilaginous liquid (This is the Althaea Root decocted over night in 10 oz. of water, you'll lose some of that water when you strain it). Add to the soap kettle directly after stirring in the Lye solution.

3 tbsp. Powdered Althaea Root premoistened with 3-4 tbsp Distilled water or escess Althaea Root decoction and set aside. This will be added to the soap kettle at trace, with the Essential Oils. Because I used Powdered Althaea Root in the decoction, I just saved the already moistened powder I sifted out of the decoction and added a little bit of Distilled water back to it. You'll figure it out.

Essential Oil Blend (best made the night before to allow total blending):

.50 oz. Cedarwood EO
.50 oz. Lemongrass EO
.50 oz. Eucalyptus EO
.25 oz. Peppermint EO
.50 oz. Lavender EO

Make soap! Melt the oils, blend them all together. Cool to about 115-125°F. Add the lye solution, immediately add the 6 oz. Althaea Root Decoction. Bring to a light trace. Add in your moistened, powdered Althaea Root and your Essential Oils. At this point I added colors, I broke it up into three pots plus the big mixing bowl - I used Chromium Green Oxide, Australian Red Reef Clay and Activated Bamboo Charcoal. I did an in the pot swirl back into the main mixing bowl. Pour the batter into your mold/s of choice. She advises to cover the soap with Saran wrap or freezer paper to prevent ash. I didn't have a lot of trouble with ash, YMMV. As she advised, I gelled the soap.

I just love this recipe, as do several of my customers, one of whom buys three bars at a time. My niece has those dry skin bumps on the back of her arms, she's dealt with this her whole life - my sister told me they're gone because of this soap. So if you don't use it on your dog, please do use it on yourself!! http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

I eat meat (not very often, but I do eat it). I have no problem with the need for animals to die for me (or my dog) to be able to live. But I dont like the idea of an animal having to die for me to have clean skin. Plus the thought of slathering a dead animal on myself is nasty. Im not saying I will NEVER use animal fats, but for now I don't want to. If there is no way for me to make good soap without it, I might consider it. I am allergic to chicken and beef as well, so that also limits animal fats.

I wonder if milk fats would work as a base (rather than an additive).....If I could get pure cream. I will have to google that. That is an interesting idea.

girlishcharm2004 said:

You can do what you want, but I'm curious as to why you'd want to play with a potentially serious allergen (shea butter). I mean, I'm assuming you're going to be the one bathing your dog.

Anyhow, another question would be why limit animal fats in your dog's soap, when you buy dog food that has animal fat in it as well? I think you'll find tallow and lard to be exceptional for sensitive skin. On the plus side, it will harden your bar without the risks of the other butters that you're considering. You say it's for ethical reasons, can't you find any that's ethically sourced -- like organic, grass fed tallow?

Just food for thought.

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I substitute water for goat milk or coconut milk or aloe water in most of my batches and love the results. SoapCalc does have value for milks; however, I think you're going to end up with a very soft bar that might never set up... there's simply too much liquid:fat. I use milk instead of water not instead of oils...

Thanks Ann! Your soap looks pretty.

Well, if you eat meat, then I gotta wonder why you can't deal with using all of the animal. Why toss parts that are so lovely and useful for wonderful hand made soap? I honor all of the animal, not just the meat. But that's just how I see it.

It would for sure need some harder oils added, but if I use cream. or ghee, which is pretty much milk oil with the water component removed. I'm sure someone has tried making ghee soap. I will google it.

ghee is in soapcalc

LOL someone on here already tried it
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=25835

and they said their soap smelled like vomit. too funny

snappyllama said:

I substitute water for goat milk or coconut milk or aloe water in most of my batches and love the results. SoapCalc does have value for milks; however, I think you're going to end up with a very soft bar that might never set up... there's simply too much liquid:fat. I use milk instead of water not instead of oils...

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I just wanted to chime in. The animal dies to feed you. It's kinder, I feel, to utilize all the waste that's thrown away like fat, than to toss it and eat the meat only.
The animals aren't slaughtered for fat to clean you, they were killed for meat to eat and you can choose to use all parts possible to make the slaughter less wasteful.
Just my opinion on the matter since you were on the fence. I was apprehensive on my own reasons at first, but now I go to the butcher and get all of their fat that goes into the garbage from the steaks they have carved up.
Waste not!

I'll chime in with the others... using something that would otherwise go into the trash is the humane/environmentally conscious thing to do. Lard makes really lovely, gentle soap. I just put up a few batches for a friend with eczema... mostly lard with olive oil and a little hemp/avocado/pumpkin seed oil substituting water for goat milk or calendula or aloe or pumpkin puree. They aren't ready yet, but their initial testing shows them to be creamy and super mild (I made several variations for him to pick between). They don't have much in the way of bubbles (no coconut oil or castor in them), but something similar might work well for your puppy.

Aye - it's not like animals are killed just for the fat and the meat is then thrown away